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Leaner better faster stronger marketing

Tackle the big buying questions facing marketing leaders and their procurement colleagues… how can you deliver more marketing within tighter budgets?

Marketing is messy – brand marketing teams need to slog behind the scenes to join up the marketing supply chain dots. The impacts can be huge at a time where budgets are under pressure. Number 5 in our series of Marketers' lockdown recovery guide webinars explored…

  • How to build your marketing supply chain so that it works for you – rather than you and your team working for it!

  • How procurement can use a Total Cost of Ownership model to buy marketing that’s both efficient and effective

  • Examples of global brands who are already developing these ways of working

  • A new interactive benchmarking tool that gives you instant feedback on where your organisation might be able to create new value within your marketing spend


Ready to optimise your marketing supply chain?

We'd love to help with any challenges you may be wrestling with. Get in touch today. 

Let's get started


Here's the transcript of the event…

Alan Thorpe, Sales and Marketing Director EMEA: So Hello, my name's Alan Thorpe and welcome to the fifth in our series of 'marketers lockdown recovery guides'.

These webinars unpack how you can optimise your marketing to keep your target audiences engaged with your organisation and buying from you. Of course, while the airlines aren't really flying our community of webinar learners is proving to be a bit of a world shrinker.

Leaning into our shared challenge today we have attendees and contributors representing brands owned by companies from Japan, France, Singapore, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, the Netherlands, we just love the wonders of tech that allow this to happen.

We've all learned in the last few months just how able we are to adapt to change. I think it'd be hard for any of us really to say that organisational change is just too difficult after all that we've achieved together, this year, which to my optimistic world view is rather brilliantly exciting.

We've blown away the fear that perhaps for some organisations is previously held back adopting the new methods required to stay aligned with customer expectations.

Today's discussion is all about change. It's about how marketing can be faster, cheaper, and better. We'll be exploring how to build your omnichannel marketing supply chain, so that it works for you rather than you and your team flogging away trying to pin it all together and working for it. How procurement can use a total cost of ownership model to buy marketing both efficient and effective and crucially measurable.

Examples of global brands who are developing ways for procurement and marketing to work together more closely to the benefit of the organisation. And finally, what's your opportunity to actually create new value introducing our benchmarking ready reckoner.

And please do interact with us during the webinar using the chat function we'll answer as we go along. And of course, please do get involved in our interactive instant polls that Jon Croft our resident king of the pollsters will run during today's event. He'll be sharing how all of us our virtual room today, are feeling about today's topic. Morning Jon!

Jon Croft, Sales Director: Morning everyone!

AT: Excellent. He's there. Brilliant, good. For anyone who's unfamiliar with Indicia Worldwide, I'll just share a 60-second introduction. We're quite an unusual business actually, in that we are completely dedicated to creating new value for our clients in the 30 plus countries that we operate in around the world.

And unusually, we work to help businesses become not just efficient with their marketing spend, but also more effective. And we're going to be diving into a bit more today. So for those of you in the UK, who watch ITV online and catch up, we're the people who sit behind running the ITV Hub and the 33 million people it has on that, or perhaps you've been buying some new apparel, new clothes from The Very Group online while the shops have been shut.

We're the customer acquisition agency that have been doing that…Excuse me. My voice… not enough coffee… for the last 20 years. We also work globally with people like Stanley Black & Decker to help them deliver quite a wide range of their marketing particularly on point of sale and print side of things and Heineken.

We're going to be hearing more about Heineken, what we do for them later today, so I'm not going to dive into that anymore. Please let me introduce our speakers… joining us from the land that first put nuts into chocolate – Switzerland. Please welcome Yves Rogivue.

Yves, you are our CEO, thanks for leading today's webinar. Please, can you introduce yourself and share why you're well qualified to talk about today's subject? 

Yves Rogivue, Global CEO

Hi. Hi, everybody. Hi. Oh, and thank you very much. Qualified of course, because we put nuts into chocolate. I wasn't even actually aware of the fact that we were the first to do that. I think you know why I'd love to speak today a little bit and share my experience. I have 20 years in the printing industry in the in the marketing industry, the wider marketing industry.

I've spoken over the last few years a lot with the marketing CMOS with a lot of marketing procurement people and have learned a great deal above and beyond just with chocolate. And so looking forward to sharing more of that just now.

AT: Brilliant. Thank you. And joining us from Spain is Javier our supply chain director. I should warn you that if you're a landlord or landlady be careful if Javier tries to rent from you apparently he's had to move five times in four years. Javier is it true your parties are rock star quality? And more importantly, what qualifies you to join today's discussion?

Javier Subira, Director of Supply Chain

Yeah, Thanks Alan. I think that I'm qualified mainly because I have many years of experience in consultancy. I used to work at Accenture and I help companies to structure their supply chains and implement improvement programs.

AT: Thank you very much. Okay. And finally, can I introduce Francine joining us from the UK, our client partner, Francine Rumball, aside from conducting Indicia Worldwide's team, so we play beautiful results for our clients, Francine also plays in a string quartet and has terrific taste in glasses. I have to say, welcome, Francine. What qualifies you to speak today?

Francine Rumball, Client Partner

Thank you, Alan. It's really great to be here. And well, similar to my colleagues, I have a kind of more than 20 years experience in the marketing services industry. And looking after clients in all number of different channels, markets, businesses. So looking forward to sharing a little bit more information about that today.

AT: Excellent. Thank you, Francine. Right, Andy, can we move on please? So, today's discussion, it's really interesting, isn't it?

When you look at what's been going on in marketing over the last few years, if you look at the graphs first, these are graphs produced by those sages of marketing Les Binet and Peter Field who analyse the entries into the Institute of Practitioners and Advertising's marketing effectiveness awards, each year, and they found some really worrying things that overall marketing effectiveness is going down.

Now, that's not something that any of us want to hear is it and then particularly highlighted something they see as dangerous, which is a rise in short term marketing. This is the, you know, to get 10% off your sofa if you buy it by the end of next week as opposed to brand building so that automatically we choose a particular brand and when we were searching for something that this this problem runs completely against what Accenture and Forrester reported in the top right of the screen here.

When they wrote a paper about the CMO collaborator. They said that actually in the future to be successful organisations need to be able to get their internal teams and outside partners to be able to closely collaborate so that they're agile, fast and built around delighting customers.

So Yves, let's talk about the challenges behind that too many cooks spoil the broth. I thought that was English saying is that a Swiss one?

YR: Actually, it's not a Swiss word, I think actually an international one for the German colleagues, German speaking colleagues on this on this call, it stems from the German saying of 'Zu viele Köche verderben den Brei'.

But Alan, you're probably gonna ask me now, what does this have to do with marketing? What does it have to do with specifically the marketing supply chain? And I want to give you an example on that. It's like if if a marketing campaign for an ice cream bar for example, stems or originated in the UK in London, one of the big branding agencies come up with a great creative idea. You know, they sit together with their customer with the brand.

They come up, they design the campaign and they get it get it started in the UK. What happens if that campaign that gets rolled out, for example in Spain, and obviously, you know, obviously the campaign needs to be translated you might have if there's a child who was holding up the ice cream bar in the UK and then in Spain, maybe you want to have a different child with with dark hair versus blonde hair or you go towards Asia, what typically happens is that the brand would transfer the idea over to Spain and in Spain, they would begin again, a whole big team of marketing people of external marketing agencies, sitting around the table and recreating kind of re-chewing, reinventing that idea.

The more geographies you you roll that that campaign out. And the more and you mentioned that on your slide before, the more different marketing channels you have, the more agencies you have really involved in this marketing supply chain, and I stemmed back from from, from my discussions with many CMOs, but also with CFOs.

And I think actually the first, the first chap who brought that up was Graeme Pitkethly, the CFO of Unilever. And he mentioned it almost at the same time as Mark Pritchard, which is CMO from Procter and Gamble, who have actually paid I think it was to Accenture to one of the big ones over a million pounds to find out that they're working with 3,000 agencies on a global level.

AT: I mean that just managing that level of fragment fragmentation must be very difficult because I mean, you know, I mean, this year is shown, the marketing has to be able to react fast. How do you do that in that situation?

YR: Exactly. And that's basically where we're at the CFO. And the CMO came in pretty much at the same time to say like, how can we work efficiently and effectively with 3,000 different marketing agencies across the world? It is, it is what that mean was many cooks spoil the broth, right.

AT: Presumably, there's the management overhead of paying for each of those people as well. Because you've got, internally and the frustration I suppose for many or businesses is they spend… if I was a marketeer working client side I find myself managing a process rather than being brilliant at marketing. That must be very frustrating.

YR: It's extremely time consuming, it's extremely cost consuming it. It also, you can just imagine what it does to your corporate identity, right. What does it cost you to your creative idea which originally made in the UK, maybe it originated in South Africa or in Turkey or in Thailand, wherever the idea came from, it watered down the corporate identity, the speed to market cost to market is really you know, it's an inefficient process and…

 AT: Yves you're stressing me out.

YR: I don't want to do that and, Alan where what is even multiplying the challenge in it is that you have this division in agencies of classic marketing, which is maybe maybe more a little bit, you know, TV ads, advertising in magazines and newspapers, the ATL and then yet on the other side, you have the more digital agencies and you have you know, this division of know how and knowledge of expertise which is making the same even more complex and more slow.

You know, I have conflicting p&l from these different agencies. And so it's definitely something where I think, you know, it asks for the improvement of the whole marketing supply chain.

AT: Right, brilliant Andy shall we spin on.

YR: And this is this is about the consumer sentiment and I think has a lot to do with the current COVID crisis, right? What does it do to shopping behaviour? What does it do to, to all of us on a global level and and we see here that people go less to the, to the malls to the big stores, they go less, they travel less, they travel less, even domestically, everybody knows that they travel a lot less internationally.

And again, the question behind it, what does it do to the customer journey, what does it do to to the shopping behaviour, and in that fragmented space, as well as of course we mentioned before is that you have a multitude of new marketing channels. And let's face it if as a brand or as a consumer to a brand a fan to a brand.

If the brand doesn't reach you in an aligned in an omnichannel aligned way, then it again misses out an opportunity. And I always have a good example here from, you know, you mentioned that I'm coming from the land of chocolate also coming from there with Swissair.

Swissair after the grounding in 2001. It kind of rejuvenated and started again as the Phoenix from the ashes and the the marketing guru behind the new launch of Swiss Airlines. He presented Swiss it was actually a UK Canadian marketing guru by the name of Tyler Brulee. He also invented *Wallpaper and today Monocle is a really respectable a great guy personally a great guy.

And he presented Swiss as kind of this lifestyle. You know, this beautiful… You go into this travel into the planes and it's peace. It's zen, it's kind of yoga. And instead you went actually on the plane which I'm doing quite a lot, at the moment not, but you went actually on the onto the SwissAir planes and you were greeted by, you know, the stewards are stewardesses and and they brought you back pretty quickly to reality right so it wasn't aligned the message wasn't alighned.

I think that is so important today to bring that message align in an omnichannel way and there are not many brands out there who actually know how to do this.

AT: Yeah, it's very interesting yesterday, wasn't it on the news that seeing Nike are is going to cost them about $200 million to completely reengineer their business that actually that you know, the readiness of some brands for this sudden change in the sort of whole marketing and going to market setup.

There's just not been there. And so yes, it's an expensive business if you don't get set up. With the agility to move forward.

YR: Yes, exactly, exactly. And then and I think there is, there is probably not many brands, as I mentioned, which get this omnichannel approach really good. And I think one of the best experience I personally made, I'm a fan of the brand is with adidas and Barry Byrne, who is the Global Head of Marketing and retail procurement.

He put out this this, this post on LinkedIn, where I think very pointedly, he mentions that, you know, marketing typically does not want to work with procurement. And I think many of maybe in the audience, many people might might find this might relate well to it, right. I think there's a recent trend maybe for the last six to 12 months where marketing and procurement come back together and kind of work together.

But in many of our customers, it is still that marketing and procurement doesn't work. really work like to work together because you know marketing sees procurement as just cutting costs extending payment terms pitching and Ii think slowly but surely we get back into sensibility and I want to read here what Barry said:

"If you want to add value in marketing first hire subject matter experts focus on killing waste that is important versus cutting costs and take the competitive tension out of the relationship because you need the relationship when it comes to marketing. And you need to collaboration, collaboration is king work together as one team to drive value. There are always opportunities often huge opportunities to optimise the marketing space, right optimization and killing waste. I think that's what is important here.

Talk to your marketing colleagues explore optimization and I love this and work together to drive ROMI which basically means return on marketing investment. Right?

AT: This is a very interesting, so that there's there's that magic word collaboration again, isn't it? The one that Accenture wrote about the one that is really difficult where you've got thousands and thousands but hundreds of different agencies. In fact, someone came to me last week and they said, We got 60 agencies, how could we have two? And it's that waste and that friction and fragmentation, isn't it?

YR: Exactly. And that's a challenge on a global level. It is not just a general in one market. It's a it's a challenge on a global level for I would say for probably most brands which are there today.

AT: Okay, great.

YR: So, what we call a little bit of tyranny of fragmented agency supply, right, this is again, many cooks spoil the broth, you know, multiple account management, work repeated lack of a brand consistency across different marketing channels, but also across geographies, global geographies, lack of transparency. And the slow response to customers in today's world where everything always has to go faster and faster and faster.

AT: This is business killing, isn't it? If you don't get it right. Ooh, Jon has popped up with his first poll here actually on this fragmented agency supply, so sorry to interrupt you Yves, which of these challenges does your business identify with multiple choice in account management soaking up resource for piecing work in local markets, lack of brand consistency, lack of transparency, slow to adapt to market and customer behaviour change? be interesting, see what everybody says? Right, I'll just cancel that so we can carry on. If this is this is perhaps the picture I'm most associate with. You squeezed lemons. What's that about?

YR: Well, you know, I think we had this video and we had the whitepaper about squeezing the lemon. And I think, again, we know all about our heritage comes from cost efficiency, doing marketing In a cost efficient way, right? And, but it's the lemon can only be squeezed that far.

And I think, you know, in the past again, procurement has probably focused very often on short term cost savings on this squeezing, you know, the last drop out of them.

Versus thinking a little bit more about an optimization of the marketing investment, how do we get return an investment out of something and I, again, I put a picture to it because I actually spoke to a marketing procurement officer and I asked her of what what keeps her awake at night.

And she said, what keeps me awake and she was sitting in Singapore, and she was sitting she's she said, what, what keeps me awake at night is that when marketing comes to me, and they, they say like, Look, we brought up this really great idea about a point of sale in that case, right and we discussed, designed it with the marketing agency, we brought it to the market and we brought it through procurement.

And she was responsible for procurement. And by the system or by the process, we kind of devalued the execution of that point of sale so that when it was in the supermarket and somebody with a mop around, it mopped up the floor, it's soaked up the water and it fell apart, it looked lousy, it looked really horrible.

And, and she said how do I overcome that conundrum? Because at the end, we need to have a process which is efficient, of course. But we also need to look at marketing efficiency and marketing effectiveness. How do we get that return on marketing investment?

And I think that all comes back to what we're speaking a little bit later about total cost of ownership versus short termism, right. How do you not just look at the, you know, the cheapest way of manufacturing something but it needs to be in a sustainable way it needs to be in a longer term.

Maybe you have Point of Sale which can hold up for different in a modular away which can hold up for different marketing campaigns at the same time, which makes a lot more sense. And over the longer term, it is actually more efficient and more cost efficient than than just looking at the short term.

And I think that's where we came up with this efficiency on one side is really important and we've got to keep to that. But effectiveness it needs to be complemented by effectiveness and that's where I bring together the procurement and the marketing side because marketing needs return on investment of marketing investment, and procurement needs efficiency and it can only work together we need to bring it together in order to bring to bring that forward.

AT: This is fascinating. The so the which these challenges, choose your business most identify with, that's really interesting. It's repeating work in local markets you can storming ahead, but actually slow to adapt to market and customer behaviour change is also, you know, not far behind and actually, that is a business killer.

That I mean, that is literally a business killer right now, isn't it? Because if you if you're unable to get to your customers, wherever those customers choose to be, then you can be out of business very quickly. We're seeing that happening very sadly right now. So, yeah, okay. Very interesting.

YR: I think it does not surprise me at all right, because especially it is that you lose, you lose time, time to market speed to market, you lose cost to market, you lose. You know, what I call corporate identity or the marketing campaign. And it has so much to do with change management, right?

And yes, and I think that's where we come back into, it needs to be the process needs to be efficient that is on this screen. It shows on the right hand side, it needs efficiency, with the help of technology with the help of processes with the help of systems, but it needs to be coupled with the effectiveness and effectiveness very often is driven by, by data by data insight by customer insight by customer journey.

All the things we discussed before where we can actually make in today's world where we can bring not only Google Analytics as giving you feedback on return on investment online in the digital space, but when we can do a similar process and a similar result analytics in the bricks and mortars right, offline in store where we bring this together, and we can actually bring these two sides together and say, like, look, efficiency and effectiveness that at the end brings value, right?

AT: I agree. I mean, if you can get 20% uplift, they're not completely out laid outweighs a couple of percent of saving, doesn't it? If you can get both together. Brilliant. 

YR: Yes, exactly. And I think Francine will speak later on about some of the proof points, the proof of concept points where we actually saw an ice cream box with a an interactive display versus a cardboard display I think we saw an uplift of 26%. Right. It was definitely not the cheapest way of presenting the point of sale, but the uplift of 26% speaks for itself.

AT: So Yves I was fascinated by all the things you say. And it's difficult to argue with any of it. But, you know, we talked a lot. I talked to the top about the fact that we've all just shown ourselves to be brilliant to change. But the reality is that that change for most large organisations is difficult, because we got multiple teams and multiple agencies, multiple brands, multiple countries, multiple nuances.

So somehow, how on earth do you actually go about addressing that change? And now Javier I'd like to bring you in on this, please, because we see, you know, your years at Accenture and your years as our supply chain director, as you can just share an approach that might help us work our way through this and identify a way of changing.

JS: Yeah, thanks, Alan. Exactly. So what I'm going to explain right now is exactly how marketing procurement teams can rationalise their market and the agency supplier base and really move beyond cost savings instead delivering these additional value that we have mentioned to the marketing teams.

AT: Ah, here we are. Yeah, you're immediately interrupted by Jon the king of the pollsters. So just before we start, what this? How is how is procurement proceed in your organisation in your business? I'll be fascinated to see this because normally I'm one of the people who's opposite procurement and it's always, nice to have an insight into their minds.

JS: Sure. And yes, so before entering into the specific methodology that we are proposing, I'm going to provide a brief background okay. In order to help you understand the why are we proposing this methodology and not a different one.

As you probably know, the WFA the World Federation of advertisers has released this month I think that in July 9. The results of their Project Sprint. That analyses the role and the perception of the marketing procurement teams within their organisations.

In this report, we can see that the 87% of the respondents releasing value or having a marketing procurement team within their organisation, but at the same time 92% of the respondents thinks that the perceived value, that procurement is the lever can really be improved. I, exactly and this links back to the question that we made. Exactly. 

AT: That's really interesting, isn't it? So there's a very unbalanced view of procurement there that very few people see procurement as leading change or as value creators.

JS: Yes great because this really supports our view in the sense that we think that one of the reasons behind these low perceived value is this misalignment that some time exists between marketing procurement teams and marketing teams.

Because in the end marketing procurement normally reports to procurement supply chain, and in some cases even to finance, and these functions are very cost driven functions, that really makes that in some cases, the standard cost saving metrics and methodologies having applied to marketing, when in reality, the nature of the work that marketing does is completely different from other categories. And therefore, the traditional savings methodologies do not apply.

AT: Okay, that's really interesting. So what you're saying is it's, it's simply because it just doesn't fit the traditional procurement approach. 

JS: Exactly. Exactly. It's sometimes treated as another category.

AT: Solve that problem, Javier!

JS: Exactly. And and to solve this problem, really the marketing procurement teams, they need to find a way to move beyond cost savings to really change the mindset of their main stakeholders.

Instead of a limiting value to marketing, through increased efficiency synergies and the return on marketing investment that Yves was mentioning before. So, yeah, going to your question Alan exactly how we propose to really change this perception of the main stakeholders and start delivering more value to marketing is through visibility.

If we can move back to the previous slide, please. Mainly because we can see on the right hand side of this slide, that really the WFA shows that there is a clear correlation between this visibility that we are mentioning, and the perception of the value that the procurement team is delivering.

So visibility is really key to drive this value. And that's why the tool that we propose to you to use to really verify this change and drive this value, is that TCO – the total cost of ownership because this will really help you to increase the visibility.

AT: And I wasn't familiar with this tool so because because obviously I don't work in procurement. So, could you just explain it to us then?

JS: Yeah, sure, if we move to the next slide… So, in the end, the total cost of ownership is a financial estimate that is thought to help buyers to analyse the direct and indirect costs associated to the lifecycle of a product.

So in marketing procurement, this model can be used, for example, to analyse all the costs associated to a campaign that go from concept to delivery. And if the campaign has any physical asset, it goes until disposal of these assets. And the really traditional cost savings methodology is the ones that are applied sometimes by procurement.

What they really do is to analyse the cost in isolation, they say they design cost and they focus on reducing their design costs, then the take a take the production costs and a focus on reducing the production cost and they put together frameworks to reduce those to have better negotiations and and so on.

And they focus on optimising and reducing the cost independently, but in reality, these costs are related and not independent. Because just as an example, if you invest a little bit more on design, okay, you decide to go through a more experienced designer, the design that you can get from that asset can be more optimised for production. So better design can really drive your production costs lower.

AT: I suppose this I mean, I agree with you, but there must be some onus on marketing then to be able to prove that. Because otherwise, if you're in procurement, how do you how do you prove that that additional value is there for that additional spend?

JS: And that's the, the key thing of the total cost of ownership, okay? In the sense that the total, the total cost of ownership is really proof these points is really going to bring visibility to all the costs that you have associated to this to this to this processes.

And also, it's going to show you all these links, all these interactions, all the synergies that you can find across all these costs, that can really help you to optimise end-to-end the cost of marketing. So if we move to the next slide, please Andy? Thank you. So in the end, total cost of ownership is not about just putting on an Excel file some of the data cost associated to a campaign and that's it.

TCO has to also bring visibility on the indirect cost, admin costs, hidden cost associated to the product that you are analysing. And this is exactly the benefit that this model will bring, because it will bring visibility to all these bottlenecks of these inefficiencies, all these two duplications that you have with those businesses.

AT: Okay, so this is where so imagine if I, if I, if I'm putting Yves's ice cream cart, out it's the market. This is where you might see well, that brand idea is actually having to go through 60 or 70 different agencies' hands to actually get it into the market, and you'll see those management fees that associated with each of those different partners building up then. Is that how you identify that? Is that what this would do?

JS: Exactly, it's exactly what this will do. But they also the point of TCO is that a cost modelling tool that is in the hands of procurement to do this cost modelling will help you to provide visibility to what you just pointed out, to all these inefficiencies that you might find in the process, but at the same time, it will help you to bring your organisation to bring your stakeholders through a change management process that will really show them the real value that procurement can deliver and change their mindset.

To really see procurement as a value generation function that can optimise the cost end to end, while improving the efficiency and the value delivered by the marketing teams.

AT: If I was a marketer, what I want to know is how can you give me more time back to do my job rather than managing this very difficult process?

JS: Exactly. And that's one of the outcomes that procurement teams need to provide to marketing. But at the same time, they need to manage the speculations of their, of their departments of their supply chain department of the finance department to which they report to.

So their going to bring these two worlds together and really drive this change and align all these people. We think that TCO can really help you. And the TCL model in the end it's it's a kind of a standard procurement tool, that is being applied very normally by multinational companies.

AT: I should just say by the way everyone, I realise there's quite a lot of text on these slides. So we will have a recording of this webinar on the website, we'll also turn it into a paper which you can take as well so don't feel you have to scribble away whilst we're on.

JS: Exactly. So in the end, if you don't know from where to start to apply a TCO model to marketing, we have helped many of our clients to really build their digital models. So we have a well thought methodology for that, that we can share, we can share with you. But now very briefly, I would like to explain you more or less the key steps that need to be taken, and the key things that need to be considered in each of these steps.

First thing, is that we need to start this process this TCO model in a formalised way.

Why? Because we want to use TCO as a change management process, so we need to bring our stakeholders through a journey. And you know that to bring them through a journey, we need to have their engagement from the very beginning.

We need to do an assessment we need to determine formally, what we need to analyse what the scenarios are we're going to analyse, which processes do we want to analyse for marketing, and formalise the output the deliverables that we are going to provide, and so on and really onboard all of our stakeholders from the different areas looking to this process.

The next step is the data collection TCO, it's very intensive on data, there are organisations that are more mature when it comes to data and there are other organisations that they are less mature. In any case, this step is not a complex one, but depending on the level of availability of your data and your maturity, you will need to put to put a little bit more effort to gather this data or less.

And then it comes the analysis. The analysis, the key part is where do you take all cost, you really analyse the interactions, this relationship between the cost, you will tap the scenarios, you model these scenarios and you take your conclusions.

In the analysis phase, when helping most of our clients to do this, we really realise that marketing procurement processes were just too complex. There were too many touchpoints. They had too many duplications across the process, too many bottlenecks. And that's why we think we are proposing to have a simpler and leaner processes in which you remove these duplications you remove all these touch points in order to have a more agile process, and that deliver better value, is more efficient and really the overall cost of the whole process is going to be way lower than the original one.

AT: Great Javier. I'm going to speed you up very slightly because we're, we've got so much talk about!

JS: Okay, so guess one less one less comment is that the be the beauty or the benefit of all this model is that after the analysis phase, you will have a set of projects that procurement needs to run that will deliver innovation will really deliver synergies will deliver cost savings and will deliver efficiencies to marketing.

So, thanks to this process, you have really started from a cost modelling exercise and in that in a set of projects that are being driven by procurement in which you are delivering additional value to marketing that is aligned with the goals is aligned with their way they work, and in the end, you're also saving and reducing the overall cost of these These processes.

AT: Great. But again, it's that magic word collaboration between a CMO who puts the customer at the centre of the organisation, and, and procurement who actually carry out a process like this to understand where those opportunities are to put the customer more centrally.

Brilliant. Thank you. Javier. I think we're spinning on Andy…

So, Francine, you know, we've we've talked about the need to fix these things is pretty hard to argue against any of these needs to fix these things, given the pace of change out there. We also I mean, Javier's talked about a process to make that change, but we know it's not easy. So how are some brands going about trying to make that change and share some example please?

FR: Absolutely. So is one of the client partners at Indicia Worldwide, my role is very much to help our clients find and unlock that value at every stage of the 'infinity loop', which is fast becoming our tool of trade. And I think as we've heard already, if fragmentation really is our enemy, how do we go about consolidating?

Hopefully, I'm going to show you some examples of how we've gone about that with three very different client brands, who've basically taken their own marketing value chain, generally linear, and overlaid that on to the infinity loop to create that cycle of optimization.

AT: The infinity loop – that's the Scalectrix track. Someone said to me the car always comes off the bottom left hand corner. 

FR: That's the one so if you can move on to the next slide, please. Andy.

AT: Got slightly on your screen Francine. It's defining next generation POS development is showing for everybody else. 

FR: Right. Okay. Because I'm going to say that's that skipped on because I need to I need to go back to my loop. Basically what our clients are telling us they won't have fewer suppliers, fewer layers so they can activate their marketing assets, seamlessly across the globe.

At every stage, what we're looking to try and do is either identify potential cost savings, or areas of value that can be working much, much harder. So the journey that your brand takes to market is effectively more efficient, more effective, and creates that link between what procurement and what marketing both want to achieve.

AT: And to make small budgets work harder.

FR: Absolutely. Absolutely. So move on to the next one, please, Andy. So in partnership with this particular clients, global FMCG brand, we've been working together for the last 11 years, we're now present and working on their behalf in 26 markets across the world. And we're currently on that journey with them to try and finesse this new agency model, if you will.

Next slide, please, Andy. So we're working with them through a period of significant transition to basically define and activate the next generation of point of sale strategy and its implementation. As we've already said, there's a never ending cycle that's got us to this point of where we felt we're always looking to lower costs. And that's really unsustainable.

So we've got to find and create new value for both our clients, for their customers, and in turn consumers, which is obviously, all of us. 

AT: So this is this is how do we move beyond Yves's squeezed lemon?

FR: Exactly, exactly. And, of course, a number of those conversations are still about optimization around cost to serve. But it's also about identifying new and different areas that are going to drive better performance.

You know, if we're just focused on a model that pushes for print savings year on year, eventually all we're doing is devaluing the role of POS marketing. So what you're seeing here is effectively our clients marketing value chain overlaid onto the loop. And at each stage, we're looking at improving cost performance or returning a cost saving.

So yes, we are unlocking value. But we're also moving away from this totally fragmented approach involving multiple agency teams, and significant duplication of effort. And we're trying to consolidate that into a single source that manages the whole end to end process.

I think what's important to say here as well is that this isn't a purely linear process, it's very much a circular process that is the point of the Infinity loop. So the benefit of it is there is a continuous process of test and learn.

AT: Okay, and I think you're using some tools obviously, sitting underneath this because we talked about shift to creating value rather than effectiveness rather than than just being efficiency.

I mean, the one that always excites me is this one Retail.i thing where, you know, we see basically it's a camera isn't it that that can identify and show how effective a different design is going to be before it's produced?

And I know it's used for drinks brand and injury and up their sales by 45%. That's that's really interesting, isn't it? Because you could just take in that cost production procurement approach, because I'd actually just put something out there. But the stand that was produced was a little bit more expensive. But the upside, we already knew what the upside was before it was rolled out. So that's that's completely different, isn't it?

FR: Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. So what is all this delivering? Well, as Alan's alluded to there is this end to end optimisation now supported by proof points and actionable data at every stage, and that is critical. Because what it then allows us to do is to provide strategic direction to kind of formalise and define the approach, and also supported by those measurable tools that are going to inform and drive better performance. 

AT: And has that changed our relationship with with with clients, you know from being one that it's very much transactional, to more of a partnership?

FR: Definitely. And I think as soon as you're able to position yourself in that space of being able to provide strategic insight, you're automatically having a totally different conversation at a different stage of the entire process.

AT: Presumably, during this sort of fast period of change that we're going through at the moment is enabling them to move faster.


Yeah, definitely. And it's a much more proactive relationship as well rather than a reactive one.

AT: Brilliant. After an hour of talking I'm glad we're getting on to beer.

FR: So we've had a look at how our relationship with a global FMCG has morphed over time if you like. And our relationship with Heineken has a slightly different dynamic and for Heineken, at each stage of the loop. Now we're unlocking all sorts of opportunities.

And the key here is really about how we deliver a global strategy brilliantly at local level. And the journey really that we've been on with Heineken goes back to 2014. You can flick on to the next slide, please, Andy. And in that time, the geographical and the volume growth that we've been able to secure with them in the print space has given us a really solid platform from which to grow our service line offering.

And today we're in 23 markets worldwide with 6 studios on site and three markets are using our global tech portal, which is helping again to deliver that agility in the areas such as ecommerce and print on demand.

AT: I suppose the portal does is it puts the MI in the hands of people centrally, and presumably enables a central procurement process as well to work more effectively.

FR: Yes, definitely. So I think you know, you can see here across the entire loop, we've got conversations going on around how we respond to COVID-19, how we can use our cameras technology to help analyse the performance of zero alcohol products as they come to market.

Print on demand and 60 markets, which is making us much faster, more agile. And the work sharing portal that you've just referenced, there is that really great synergy now between what marketing wants which is more work sharing more ability to see what markets are delivering, and what procurement's also wanting, which is that if we can do this smarter and faster, and for a lower cost, then everybody benefits.

AT: And I suppose I come back to that thing. You know, as a marketer, it's giving you back time, isn't it, control get rather than that feeling of trying to manage the chaos of umpteen different partners.

FR: Completely. So just moving on now to our last example, we've seen two kind of multi brand businesses and this final example shows how the approach can also be applied to one brand with one campaign and one execution in market and this was all about creating a series of fresh and engaging promotions across in-store and digital that will get consumers to buy Chiquita bananas on more occasions and for more reasons.

AT: We should be doing more of that I saw a report yesterday that saying the British have been on a biscuit spending spree during lockdown. So when we all emerge, we're going to be… bigger.

FR: More bananas for your biscuit would be good. So again, we overlaid the approach to the entire campaign, on to the loop, starting with the science behind the customer truths, going through all the stages that you would normally go through, working with our planning team, and then being able to overlay the data that we knew about customers with what we knew about the brand, delivering a fun and engaging experience, which then fed through into the creative brief.

And importantly, here was our retail understanding and our knowledge of different local markets. We were able to do quite a lot of analysis in local market with our on-the-ground teams to understand how local environments might differ slightly one from the other and incorporate that all into the key visuals and the key messages that we wanted to get across.

And then going back into production, obviously to Javier's point earlier, making sure that the creative was well suited to deliver all the efficiencies around production that we possibly could. And transcreation, which was a really important part again of this particular campaign, understanding that if you want to create and inject humour into a campaign, you've got to think about that really sensitively and how that translates in market.

So in terms of delivering what the client really needed here, this was all about value through the entire chain, localization – providing relevancy in all the markets that were participating, and finally optimising user experience and delivering that efficiency across all the creative, into all of the channels.

AT: Okay, great, thank you. So there's some lesson examples of brands who and organisations who are already looking to change how they're doing marketing. We have the last from the king of the pollsters: what approach is your business taking to face the future multiple choice, greater alignment and procurement marketing, consolidation, streamlining agency roster, moving towards measuring marketing value rather than purely cost, partner with channel-specialist agencies or keeping the status quo.

And that doesn't mean that terrible old 1970s British rock band. So thank you, Jon.

Whilst everybody responds to that I just want to talk a little bit about something that's going to be coming out. As business we have several hundred million pounds worth of marketing spend passing through the processes that Francine's just talked about.

And so that gives us a good idea, a good idea of who's doing great things and who isn't and what great looks like. So we are going to be built we are building, we are building a marketing leader benchmark tool.

And if you just press the next clip, please so I'm missing half my side. There we are. And this will basically allow anybody to click through to key challenges in effectiveness and efficiency and see an instant spider diagram or some call them radar diagrams, where they stand versus what we see is best in class.

Now look, it's not as thorough as as Javier's approach. But what it does do is give an instant view about where you stand. So we are going to be launching that very shortly and we will ping an email around to everybody to allow everybody to interact with that.

But sometimes it's just quite useful to get that instant ready reckoner of how good your marketing is. So what approach is your business taking? Greater alignment of procurement and marketing – that is fantastic news.

That is, I mean, brilliant, so we're all heading towards that. Move towards the Measuring marketing value can cost as well. Brilliant. I think that's what Yves; that's what you've been talking about so much earlier today. So that's fantastic. Part of a specialist agencies interesting few people going down a slightly different route.

But no one is staying still, so that that is probably the most exciting news coming out of that there. And finally, Andy, click on the next slide, please. We've talked about that already. Finally, I just like to say thank you very much to Yves, Javier, Francine, and to you for joining us this morning. Hope you found that useful. There will be a paper there will be a recording, which you can have to share around your organizations with people who may be interested.

Next up, we're handing over the keys to our webinar series to our Asia office. And they're going to be running event on Wednesday 26th August about sustainability in action because we know that that is a huge thing, both from a brand perspective and for you consumer perspective, that'd be running at 11am if you're in Singapore, 1pm Australian eastern time, or if you're British 4am, which presumably means you've got to be coming out from a big night out or a very early bird.

But we will be recording it of course, and it will be available as a paper as well and on the website. So again, thank you very much, and we look forward to seeing you next time.

YR: Thank you very much, Alan. And thanks everybody for your time and interest to participate. Thank you.

The speakers

Speaker One image

Yves Rogivue bw_177x222

Yves Rogivue

Global CEO

Yves's experience in marketing print procurement services is unrivalled. He's led NASDAQ companies in EMEA and APAC and now leads Indicia Worldwide's ongoing transformation.


Francine Rumball

Client Partner

Francine works closely with client-side marketing and procurement teams to ensure our services deliver against their challenges. She has 20 years of experience building lasting relationships with clients in the marketing services industry.


Javier Subira

Director of Supply Chain

Javier is a supply chain leader with consultancy background. He boasts a proven track record of delivering transformation projects and savings within procurement, supply chain and finance.  

Alan Thorpe bw_177x222-1

Alan Thorpe

Sales and Marketing Director EMEA

Strategy, brand, data science, technology, digital, aligning brand experience with customer needs… you name it, Alan knows how to do it. He’s also a strategic thinker: focused upon leading innovation and change.



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